Comments on: Walk the Walk Before Talking the Talk http://killersoft.com/randomstrings/2006/02/16/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/ The Killersoft Blog by Clay Loveless Tue, 18 Nov 2008 09:27:18 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.3 By: A neat little piece by Clay Loveless http://killersoft.com/randomstrings/2006/02/16/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/#comment-32822 A neat little piece by Clay Loveless Thu, 02 Aug 2007 12:31:59 +0000 http://killersoft.com/randomstrings/2006/02/16/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/#comment-32822 [...] back to what I was really wanting to post about… I ran across an article of Clay’s today that I think that any PHP developer needs to read. If you do not know Clay, or have not read that post, give it a read. It is worth the time for any [...] […] back to what I was really wanting to post about… I ran across an article of Clay’s today that I think that any PHP developer needs to read. If you do not know Clay, or have not read that post, give it a read. It is worth the time for any […]

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By: » Zaujalo mě http://killersoft.com/randomstrings/2006/02/16/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/#comment-26 » Zaujalo mě Fri, 24 Feb 2006 08:29:55 +0000 http://killersoft.com/randomstrings/2006/02/16/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/#comment-26 [...] Walk the Walk Before Talking the Talk [...] […] Walk the Walk Before Talking the Talk […]

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By: Feedsterite Roundup at The Story of Feedster http://killersoft.com/randomstrings/2006/02/16/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/#comment-25 Feedsterite Roundup at The Story of Feedster Wed, 22 Feb 2006 15:04:03 +0000 http://killersoft.com/randomstrings/2006/02/16/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/#comment-25 [...] Clay Loveless: “A question that eventually comes up for programmers who stick with it long enough is: Am I an expert yet? Do I have the chops to throw down with The Big Kids?” [...] […] Clay Loveless: “A question that eventually comes up for programmers who stick with it long enough is: Am I an expert yet? Do I have the chops to throw down with The Big Kids?” […]

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By: Point, Counterpoint at Random Strings http://killersoft.com/randomstrings/2006/02/16/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/#comment-19 Point, Counterpoint at Random Strings Fri, 17 Feb 2006 18:45:33 +0000 http://killersoft.com/randomstrings/2006/02/16/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/#comment-19 [...] About « Walk the Walk Before Talking the Talk [...] […] About « Walk the Walk Before Talking the Talk […]

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By: Clay http://killersoft.com/randomstrings/2006/02/16/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/#comment-18 Clay Fri, 17 Feb 2006 16:29:10 +0000 http://killersoft.com/randomstrings/2006/02/16/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/#comment-18 Jason: Cheers! I hope to climb higher on the ladder myself. I often still find myself at the crossroads of a new project being tugged by my old bad habits. I'll think "nah, *this* doesn't need to be in Subversion..." but really it's much easier to just decide on everything going in, so your bases are covered. Xing: You're absolutely right about knowing what's going on in each line of code. Ideally, in a well-formed class/package, there's been some thought put into segmenting out the essential pieces so that you're not required to load up a bunch of overhead crap just to use a method or two. As for LoveCookies.com -- after putting on too much weight running that effort, plus having our first child, my wife and I decided to close that down. ;) Was a great learning experience, though! Shawn: Ultimately I just came to the realization that for now, if you want to use PEAR libs, you can't run under E_STRICT. Slowly but surely more and more PEAR packages are evolving to E_STRICT compliance, but I suspect it'll be another year or two before we get there. In the meantime, I've been developing with Zend Studio 5 and running the "Analyze Code" routine over my code and checking to make sure that the debug output isn't complaining about E_STRICT problems in what I've written. That way I'll be in the clear when my dependencies are E_STRICT-ready. Paul: I agree -- some core competencies are certainly a pre-requisite. However, I feel like otherwise mediocre-to-poor developers can be made passable through the adherence to some Best Practices. After all, even my grandmother can grasp a 'switch' statement; she executes one every time she goes out to run errands. "If this store is too crowded, go to this one instead and pass back by the first one on my way home..." and so on and so on. Jason: Cheers! I hope to climb higher on the ladder myself. I often still find myself at the crossroads of a new project being tugged by my old bad habits. I’ll think “nah, *this* doesn’t need to be in Subversion…” but really it’s much easier to just decide on everything going in, so your bases are covered.

Xing: You’re absolutely right about knowing what’s going on in each line of code. Ideally, in a well-formed class/package, there’s been some thought put into segmenting out the essential pieces so that you’re not required to load up a bunch of overhead crap just to use a method or two. As for LoveCookies.com — after putting on too much weight running that effort, plus having our first child, my wife and I decided to close that down. ;) Was a great learning experience, though!

Shawn: Ultimately I just came to the realization that for now, if you want to use PEAR libs, you can’t run under E_STRICT. Slowly but surely more and more PEAR packages are evolving to E_STRICT compliance, but I suspect it’ll be another year or two before we get there. In the meantime, I’ve been developing with Zend Studio 5 and running the “Analyze Code” routine over my code and checking to make sure that the debug output isn’t complaining about E_STRICT problems in what I’ve written. That way I’ll be in the clear when my dependencies are E_STRICT-ready.

Paul: I agree — some core competencies are certainly a pre-requisite. However, I feel like otherwise mediocre-to-poor developers can be made passable through the adherence to some Best Practices.

After all, even my grandmother can grasp a ’switch’ statement; she executes one every time she goes out to run errands. “If this store is too crowded, go to this one instead and pass back by the first one on my way home…” and so on and so on.

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By: Coomey.net http://killersoft.com/randomstrings/2006/02/16/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/#comment-17 Coomey.net Fri, 17 Feb 2006 16:01:11 +0000 http://killersoft.com/randomstrings/2006/02/16/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/#comment-17 <strong>Walk the Walk......</strong> I ran across a really good blog entry by Clay Loveless (of Feedster fame) yesterday that really cut to the heart of what it means to call yourself a software developer. In his words: discipline. I highly recommend everyone who considers themselves a de... Walk the Walk……

I ran across a really good blog entry by Clay Loveless (of Feedster fame) yesterday that really cut to the heart of what it means to call yourself a software developer. In his words: discipline. I highly recommend everyone who considers themselves a de…

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By: Paul Crowley http://killersoft.com/randomstrings/2006/02/16/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/#comment-16 Paul Crowley Fri, 17 Feb 2006 15:56:52 +0000 http://killersoft.com/randomstrings/2006/02/16/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/#comment-16 No amount of discipline will altogether compensate for a lack of talent. Both are needed. For some projects other skills, such as empathy for your client/prospective user, also come into play. No amount of discipline will altogether compensate for a lack of talent. Both are needed. For some projects other skills, such as empathy for your client/prospective user, also come into play.

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By: Shawn Coomey http://killersoft.com/randomstrings/2006/02/16/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/#comment-15 Shawn Coomey Fri, 17 Feb 2006 15:51:32 +0000 http://killersoft.com/randomstrings/2006/02/16/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/#comment-15 Clay: > Shawn: Thanks for the kind words :) You are very welcome. Thanks for the great blog. :) > I stuck with E_ALL in the Feedster frontend re-write since it depends on so many PEAR libraries which aren’t E_STRICT compliant. I'd love to know how this worked out for you in your development efforts. I too use a LOT of PEAR libs in my applications and almost all of them throw tons of notices when strict reporting is turned on. Clay:
> Shawn: Thanks for the kind words :)
You are very welcome. Thanks for the great blog. :)
> I stuck with E_ALL in the Feedster frontend re-write since it depends on so many PEAR libraries which aren’t E_STRICT compliant.

I’d love to know how this worked out for you in your development efforts. I too use a LOT of PEAR libs in my applications and almost all of them throw tons of notices when strict reporting is turned on.

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By: Pet Pixels http://killersoft.com/randomstrings/2006/02/16/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/#comment-14 Pet Pixels Fri, 17 Feb 2006 15:40:43 +0000 http://killersoft.com/randomstrings/2006/02/16/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/#comment-14 <strong>Walking the walk...</strong> Clay Loveless has an excellent article on professional PHP development attitudes. I couldn't agree more about the rules, especially that last one. My own PHP coding (in pretty much the exact circumstances described!) has come on by leaps and bounce... Walking the walk…

Clay Loveless has an excellent article on professional PHP development attitudes.

I couldn’t agree more about the rules, especially that last one. My own PHP coding (in pretty much the exact circumstances described!) has come on by leaps and bounce…

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By: Mike Willbanks http://killersoft.com/randomstrings/2006/02/16/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/#comment-13 Mike Willbanks Fri, 17 Feb 2006 14:15:18 +0000 http://killersoft.com/randomstrings/2006/02/16/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/#comment-13 Xing Li (The comment before this one), While I agree with your statement about not making everything into objects, however, if you are working on a bid enough project it makes more sense to make them into objects. Each object contains a layer of functionality along with a the code that implements these routines. This allows you to do many different things. One of them being consistancy which you complain about earlier. Also in most objects you shouldn't need to use a constructor. It might just be bad design when you are looking at some of those. Allowing for static methods you can utilize an object somewhat like a namespace which then allows for much more consistancy. Controlling the flow of performance is almost just as great if you utilize your objects correctly, if not sometimes better. Xing Li (The comment before this one),

While I agree with your statement about not making everything into objects, however, if you are working on a bid enough project it makes more sense to make them into objects. Each object contains a layer of functionality along with a the code that implements these routines. This allows you to do many different things.

One of them being consistancy which you complain about earlier. Also in most objects you shouldn’t need to use a constructor. It might just be bad design when you are looking at some of those.

Allowing for static methods you can utilize an object somewhat like a namespace which then allows for much more consistancy. Controlling the flow of performance is almost just as great if you utilize your objects correctly, if not sometimes better.

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